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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 9:46:56 GMT -5
Hi Beebs, do you know what is going on inside the body when we are falling asleep? I have the impression that in some people the symptoms get stronger just before falling asleep. An explanation is that people slow down and pay more attentione to their symptoms because in bed trying to fall asleep there is no more distractions, but I assume there are other things which may play a role, too. Quite a while back I read in an article in my language that the NO ONOO may play a role because through the relaxation more of NO is produced. That sounds reasonable. But what role may be GABA playing? Any other ideas?
You have done a great work!!!!
Namid
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Post by beebs on May 13, 2012 7:39:12 GMT -5
Hi Beebs, do you know what is going on inside the body when we are falling asleep? I have the impression that in some people the symptoms get stronger just before falling asleep. An explanation is that people slow down and pay more attentione to their symptoms because in bed trying to fall asleep there is no more distractions, but I assume there are other things which may play a role, too. Quite a while back I read in an article in my language that the NO ONOO may play a role because through the relaxation more of NO is produced. That sounds reasonable. But what role may be GABA playing? Any other ideas? You have done a great work!!!! Namid Good question. Limited knowledge. Gaba works in unison within the brain neuronal network. Can't be isolated in its performance. Simple question, complex answer, involves sleep cycle, circadian rhythm, sleep stages, hypocretin, DHEA, melatonin, the suprachiasmatic nucleus, ACh, 5HT, glutamate, catecholamines, Adenosine and so on. Most studies are conducted in relation to pharmacological agents to induce sleep, targeting GABA, and in relations to some of the above. Few sleep studies with a mix of GABA and other neurochems, molecular and synaptic activities etc. In a nutshell, I haven't come across studies specific to GABA A and Gaba B during sleep studies. We know that decrease in GABA can cause CNS symptoms including insomnia, and thus some try taking GABA supps, (some studies show it does not cross the BBB) others try B6 , magnesium, herbs and psychotropics. Interesting. NO increases during relaxation/sleep, will read up on that. Does this mean, that NO would then increase ROS, so that relaxation/sleep increases free radicals and oxidization leading to worsening of symptoms and disease progress?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 7:43:25 GMT -5
yes, if I remember correctly the NO causes more symptoms. I will try to find the part in the article. But I have the feeling that more is involved. Thank you for your answer! Namid
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Post by beebs on May 13, 2012 12:36:16 GMT -5
yes, if I remember correctly the NO causes more symptoms. I will try to find the part in the article. But I have the feeling that more is involved. Thank you for your answer! Namid Thanks for the info. It could explain why waking up in the morns (or even worse, if napping) - exacerbates symptoms, unretorative sleep. Likewise, with acupuncture, and every attempt at regaining health. Not sure if to cry or laugh at the irony of this broken body of ours, reacting to everything that would otherwise enahance healing! As one scientist told me once, the ion channels in the body are no longer functioning normally, imagine the implications here. Its total chaos. The enormity of being so reactive to everything, the most benign treatment, is daunting in terms of recovery! How to restore function at the very basis? Top that with taking antioxidants which oxidizes, and nutrients which gets mopped up, and ends up as waste because the sparks are not there to process to start with? Which brings to mind, some medications target specific ion channels, as do some toxins from animals. I remember a while back reading about a journalist who was stung by a puffer fish on a fishing expedition. He became very ill, for a number of years. Developed sensitivity to electricity and EMF. Although, he is improved, he still lives in isolation. If I remember correctly, the toxins from puffer fish blocks sodium channels, as do local anesthetics. (Not comparing puffer fish toxins tetrodotoxin with anesthetics, lol). Moving on, I suppose what I am saying here, is some of us, can't tolerate medications, anesthetics and so on. The last time I had a local anesthetic, it caused trauma, immediately, then, bedridden for two years. Imagine what this do the NO production!! Hum, we started off on GABA and NO, and well... feeling chatty today. ;D bah, its complicated!! Meanwhile, we continue with our Quest for Health
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 8:17:11 GMT -5
Hi Beebs, sorry for the late reply but I got the translation finished now. Keep in mind that English is not my native language and I tried to do it as best as possible even if it may sound a little strange :-) but I think you will be able to understand the meaning of what he said. Kuklinski Praxisrelevanz des nitrosativen Stresses OM und Ernährung 2008 Nr. 124 www.dr-kuklinski.info/publikationen/nitrosativer-stress_1.pdf
"… Every healthy person experiences when he starts to fall asleep temporarily limited physiological NO stress. In the forebrain more nNO (neuronal nitric oxide) is produced. It inhibits the mt ATP synthese; lactate, pyruvat, CrP and ADP are increasing and ATP is reduced. At the same time glutathion is oxidized. The energy supply to the brain is reduced and it is getting tired. In EEG the slow theta waves (4-8 Hz) are shown and at sleep the slower delta Waves (<4 Hz). During the time of falling asleep there may be dystonias (twitsches of extremities) as signs of electrical membrane potentials discharges due to ATP deficits. It is important that beside the effect of tiredness there is an episode of inflammation and SH- groups are oxidized. Because the duration is short they are clinical not important. The situation is different during chronic disturbances during the sleep with recidivated peaks of NO. After awaking there is no feeling of refresh. There are long start-up time, no appetite, pain in the spine and joints and stiffness. NO in the breathing air and citrullin in the urine are pathological increased in contrast to healthy persons. In persons with chronic increased NO production is this a permanent condition. It is clear, that under these circumstances they feel groggy the next day… Energy deficiencies during the nights manifest themselves in disturbed sleep, rapid heartbeat, attacks of sweating, nightmares, anxiety – dreams, muscle cramps, dystonia (tremors). We interpret snoring and apnoea with salivary flow as signs similar to the depth of a coma (it can happen as well after a meal with high levels of carbohydrates)…"
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Post by beebs on May 30, 2012 3:42:36 GMT -5
Hey Namid: no worry about translation, gave up worrying about that and the cognitive dysfunction, years ago. I thought the translation was excellent. Good description of what happens to chronically ill over the years, we simply don't escape or have respite, its always there, day & night... Have you had your citrullin tested? Had mine tested about 6 years ago, and yes, it was elevated. The Functional Medical doctor at the time recommended a list of vits and supps, most of which I couldn't take.
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